As to whether the reaction to Floor is motivated by sexism - IMO, there would probably have been backlash if say, Tuomas or Marco had said the same thing. Nightwish is a big enough band, and Slayer enough of a metal institution, that tensions would rise. But the language and tone of many of the comments aimed at Floor certainly have plentiful elements of sexism within them.
Like, using the word "****" in reference to female genitalia instead of "****", the vernacular word for testicles?
Yes, it's as if women's suffrage never happened. Dark times we're living in.
Actually, I was more referring to things like people writing off her opinion as down to "pregnancy hormones" (and I would bet you a not insubstantial amount of money that if she wasn't pregnant there would be a string of "jokes"/ straight up insults about how she must be on her period and not thinking straight). Because, speaking as a woman, if you ever happen to hold an unpopular opinion, or are stressed or angry, it's often written off as crazy hormonal behaviour rather than a legitimate opinion or feeling. It's deeply patronising.
Or the many comments insulting her looks, or talking about whether the commenters would sleep with her or not - because apparently the most important thing is not a woman's talent, it is that she looks pretty. Even if Floor looked like the back end of a bus (and she doesn't) that wouldn't affect her ability to sing and perform, and the idea that a woman's opinions are only valid if she meets some nebulous "hotness threshold" is troubling and tiring. Particularly since her comments about Slayer, whilst ill judged, made no reference whatsoever to the looks of the bandmembers.
But, you know, heaven forfend some people might find that a little sexist. We have the right to vote after all, that must mean sexism is no more!
I... don't want to start an argument here particularly - but... your whole post is basically talking about how open minded fans of European metal and X and Y genres are, and then in the same breath talking about how A, B and C genres that you don't like aren't REAL metal and are really bad and this fan and that don't know what they are talking about.
The American metal scene filled with metalcore, deathcore, whatevercore, numetal, etc is bad. It's really bad right now. That sadly is a fact. The fan base is just as bad.
They shop at *gasp* Hot Topic! They like *horror* BANDS THAT ARE VERY WELL KNOWN! Your whole post is a massive example of metal elitism, WHILST BASHING METAL ELITISM.
Have you even heard half the bands that are being called metal in the USA right now? Half are hardcore bands the other half is post-hardcore. The other part are just hardrock. Then you have deathcore bands being called death metal. 90% of the people who shop Hot Topic don't even listen to metal music yet are willing to buy a Slayer shirt then get mad at people when there called out on not being a fan of Slayer or of metal music at all.
That's not elitism that those are facts. Floor had her opinion acted the same way any one who says they don't like Slipknot, Slayer, etc. If she would have said she did not like Lamb of God the same thing would have happened. If she said she did not like Slipknot same thing and the list goes on.
You know, that genre of rock music marketed to teenagers, with the loud guitars, the zombies and skulls on album covers, the leather jackets, band logo patches and all.
Of course it's less civilized than soccer!
And this is the point and the problem with the metal scene in the USA right now when it comes to metal music. The fact that METAL ELITISM is used on people who don't like meatlcore. I'm sorry but 90% of the metalcore bands are nothing but hardcore bands with a few metal elements thrown in here and there. It's not elitism to point out that hardcore music has nothing to do with metal.
Floors whole point is people can like and dislike what they want. I mean I will be honest Nightwish fans are just as bad as bashing bands to or getting mad when someone does not like them.
I'm... confused? So, metal elitism only comes from fans of genres that are, in your opinion "not really metal" - fans of other genres are much more tolerant and Floor is the victim of these "so-called metal fans"? But the real problem in metal elitism is not in fact the elitism, it is the fact that it is directed at people who dislike "not really metal bands"? And actually, Nightwish (a very European band that has encompassed power metal, symphonic metal and even some elements of folk metal) has just as much of an issue with elitism in it's fanbase?
Honestly, I think the main problem with metal elitism (other than the fact it can occasionally make the community a little toxic for existing fans and very unwelcoming for some new fans) is the fact that there's so many different types that it basically comes from everywhere. You've got people that look down on you if you don't like the "big" bands of the genre. You've got people that look down on you if you like any band that is "too big" and plays venues bigger than your local pub. You've got people that look down on you if you don't like one specific genre of metal, and you've got people that look down on you if you like ANY OTHER GENRE than that one.
I am kinda disappointing in Floor, she resembles Anette's attitude in this regard too much. Sure, I don't think any reasonable person would hate her for not liking Slayer, but there is a great deal of difference of stating that something's not your cup of tea, and that someone's music is terrible or extremely boring. And that comment "I am sure they wouldn't listen to my band either" is really immature and presumptuous, to presuppose other people's music taste. Instead of maybe simply admitting her words were a little bit too extreme, she goes all Anette Olzon.
It's a fair point. The reaction - particularly on social media - has absolutely been blown out of proportion. At the end of the day, it is just Floor's opinion and she has every right not to like Slayer. But if Anette had said the same thing about Nightwish (or even Slayer) then many of the members here talking about how they admire Floor's candor would probably be rushing to criticise Anette for saying something rude and undiplomatic about another band.
That seems harsh. As others have said, she had several years of writing and recording her own songs after that interview. She's also actually had experience of being in the band now - maybe she and the others get along so well that she doesn't mind not writing her own songs? Maybe she'll contribute her own songs in the future? Or maybe now that she's a band member she knows it's important for the band to project a united front and doesn't want to be perceived as criticising her band members in public or starting rumours that she's unhappy with the band? Not to mention, it's not a crime for someone to want to make a living out of what she does - if Floor's happy that she can now make a comfortable living out of singing for several more years and is willing to put aside some of her creative juices so that she can continue to do so, that's a perfectly reasonable decision.
Please don't tell me we're turning on Floor. Please. Anything but that.
Old quotes and stuff, that's the distant past and a far different landscape, doesn't matter now really, she's happy in the band, and we're far more lucky than we deserve with her at the front.
I mean, why are we turning on Floor again? Anette was loudmouthed, but Floor is loudmouthed AND the best singer so what? Are we really turning her from hero and savior of Nightwish to diva all of a sudden?
Tarja's problem was not that she was a diva, I mean, she IS a diva, it's that it interferred with the music AND the guys. Same with Anette, her "diva" outbreaks started to creep into the band and they were like "lol no you won't" and kicker her out. Meanwhile, Floor has always been opinionated, now, 10 years ago, always, yet she's managed to keep the band's atmosphere great for years now, if she's arrogant or whatever, (I'm not saying she is) she's still holding the band (and the fans, for once) together successfully. She's also a one in a milliom frontwoman so we can't blame her for her high horse, all in the terms of human respect and decency of course. It's also evident that she hasn't reached the "I'm hope I never get back to Greece" phase, not even close.
I beg you please stop this witch hunt else she gets tired of our crap and just takes the ball home. As you can see, she's out of damns to give nowadays.
I don't think anyone's turning on Floor on this forum. No one's calling for her to be out of the band. No one's saying she's not a talented singer. No one's calling her every name under the sun. Saying "Her comment was undiplomatic/ badly worded/ unnecessary." or "Criticising famous, long standing bands of the genre is in bad taste generally" (not sure I agree with the opinion but anyway) is not a witch hunt, by any definition. I have every sympathy with her over some of the comments that have been posted on social media, and I hope that it blows over soon, but there is a difference between that and believing that she should be totally exempt from criticism.
Floor is a grown woman who will occasionally make mistakes because she is human. She is not a demon who deserves to be harassed endlessly for them, neither is she a saviour on a pedestal who should never be criticised. And on a similar note, she is a vocalist, about whose talent people will have different opinions and tastes because music is hugely subjective- she has worked in this industry for years, I am sure she is not going to pack it in just because she receives some mild criticism and her voice isn't to some people's tastes - if she were, she would already have done so.
And as for "Packing it in because she's out of damns to give" - let's not get over the top here. There's a world of difference between making a snarky throwaway comment about another band in an interview, that she would probably have already forgotten about if there hadn't been a kickback online about it, and packing in your lucrative job that you really enjoy as the vocalist of a world famous band, just as you are about to give birth to a tiny, expensive human.
- Floor's comment was probably not very well judged.
- Acknowledging that doesn't mean you don't like Floor as a vocalist or a person, or want her out of the band.
- Some of the negative reaction has been way over the top
- Like whatever you want.