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Floor's Metal Test [Metal Hammer]


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#176
Aendor

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Good to know.
The problem is, you are - respectfully speaking - pretty irrelevant.
It's not as if you are the frontman or -woman of a huge metal act, are you?

 

[...]

 

 

That is relevant...how, exactly? An opinion is an opinion. Floor is just another person. The front woman of a Metal band, actually. How does that put her on some sort of pedestal? Floor is not a politician and has no responsibility to you, me or any other person for her opinion. She was asked a question, and responded how she saw fit. If you're implying we (Floor is a part of "we" after all, she's only human) all keep our opinions to ourselves if we don't agree or fit some sort of group hivemind, why are you on a message board?

 

Also, the Beatles comment was a response to those that insist Floor never have a negative opinion of her Metal forefathers. Which is a ridiculous idea.


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#177
some_dude_on_the_interwebs

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That is relevant...how, exactly? An opinion is an opinion.


And a statement to the press is a statement to the press.

If you're implying we (Floor is a part of "we" after all, she's only human) all keep our opinions to ourselves if we don't agree or fit some sort of group hivemind, why are you on a message board?


Because a message board is where us nerds share our opinions, whereas the press is where professional musicians do PR in the broadest sense :)

Also, the Beatles comment was a response to those that insist Floor never have a negative opinion of her Metal forefathers. Which is a ridiculous idea.


I think it is a pretty reasonable idea per se, but the point is, if you think Slayer (or any other act, small and irrelevant or huge and influential) sucks... you don't say it in an interview.
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#178
Razorclaw

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And a statement to the press is a statement to the press.

 

A statement to the entertainment media is not the same thing as the leader of a country talking to the press. In all honest when it comes right down to it me you and ever one else have very little to no right to Floor. We have no right to know what goes on in her life who her family is and so on. She does not even need to meet with the fans. No one in the band dose. There only job is to A) make music B) play it on the stage and that's it.

 

Interviews only ever have to be about there music and nothing else. So she can have her opinion and say what she wants just as Kerry King can do the same, etc.


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#179
some_dude_on_the_interwebs

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And a statement to the press is a statement to the press.

 
A statement to the entertainment media is not the same thing as the leader of a country talking to the press.

 
I don't think I said anything to that effect.
Still, a statement to the press is a statement to the press.
Is not something you think but something you want people to believe you think.
It's PR.
There is good PR and bad PR.
"Band X sucks" is, in my opinion, bad PR, because:

1. It's rude.
2. When "band X" is Slayer, it is also, in my opinion, stupid and short-sighted.

I would like to add "unless you are Dave Mustaine and have earned that right", but even Dave Mustaine sounds like an idiot when he insults other artists.
 
So there's that.
If you choose to find it very tasteful I'm okay with it (although I can't help but wonder how you were raised, manners-wise).
Please respect my right to find it pretty silly :)

it me you and ever one else have very little to no right to Floor. We have no right to know what goes on in her life who her family is and so on.

 
In fact, I couldn't possibly care less.
 
 

There only job is to A) make music B) play it on the stage and that's it.

 
Not true.
The duties of a professional rock musician include a myriad other things, which very much include posing for promo photos and... releasing interviews.
 

Interviews only ever have to be about there music and nothing else. So she can have her opinion and say what she wants just as Kerry King can do the same, etc.


...what?
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#180
Serious Sam

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I disagree about the bad PR sort of. I think Floor and Nightwish have reached a level where just about every PR is good PR. Not as in "this will make people like you", but as in "this will make you known to an even wider audience". I mean those who bought EFMB will not not buy the next album because of Floor's comments about Slayer. But there might be some people who hear the name Nightwish for the first time because they read that their frontwoman insulted slayer. Some will be pissed of by it, but it might also make people curious. Like how it's breaking news when Taylor Swift dumps another boyfriend. It's not like it's necessarily, depending on the circumstances, a good thing to do, but it creates interest, what basketball analysts call "a narrative". Or, in other words, drama. And drama is good for your popularity. You have to be more than a great artist these days. You have to be good at marketing too. I don't think Floor really has that in her, but from another singer this might be a brilliant ploy to create interest in the downtime between tours. Gives people something to talk about. Not likely considering the recent release, but not impossible either.

 

But essentially I agree with some_dude, and I would even say it is totally fair that your duties as a rock star include those things. After all, those things helped you become well-known in the first place. And there is the aspect that you are idolized by young people as a pop/rock star, which you may not like but which is still the case. So you do have a responsibility to live up to certain behavioral standards, to set an example or at least try not to be a bad example. It is curious that this is something whiich seems to be controversial in music or art in general, when for professional athletes it's pretty much a standard. The only exception would be to me artists who refuse to talk about their personal lifes, period. If you pick and choose what of it to tell you have a responsibility to think about how what you're saying comes across. It's like, why should this be different for artists than for normal professionals? You don't HAVE to answer questions about yourself. You CAN only stick to the music. Interest in you as a person is part of your success. You can't pick and choose when you like it and when you don't. 


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#181
Razorclaw

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Not true.
The duties of a professional rock musician include a myriad other things, which very much include posing for promo photos and... releasing interviews.

 

Nope they don't have to do any of that. They don't have to have promo photos they don't have to do interviews heck they don't even have to give there music to the press. Who ever told you they had to do that was feeding you a lie.

 

Where are the promo photos for Beethoven. Where are the interviews. Do you know how many black metal bands don't do any of that. Let's look at the bands Ghost people say they know who is under the hoods of the Nameless Ghouls. For all we know it could be five women and male singer.

 

Bands don't have to meet the fans they don't have to talk to the fans. They don't have to play there music live they don't have to do promo photos or interviews. They don't have to do any of that if they don't want to. There are a lot of bands that don't do any of that and still have a fan base.

 

People in said band don't have to like another band or there music. People really need to understand that a band and the music the play is not the same thing as the person. Ie Charlotte Wessels of Delain is not the same as Charlotte Wessels who hangs with her mom, dad, brother and sister. We as fans have no right to that Charlotte. Same thing goes for Floor. Same thing goes for Simone and the list goes on.

 

So when Floor says she does not like Slayer and finds them dull. She has ever right to say that. Slayer the band is not the same as the people.

 

 

‚Äč

 

I don't think I said anything to that effect.
Still, a statement to the press is a statement to the press.
Is not something you think but something you want people to believe you think.
It's PR.
There is good PR and bad PR.
"Band X sucks" is, in my opinion, bad PR, because:

1. It's rude.
2. When "band X" is Slayer, it is also, in my opinion, stupid and short-sighted.

I would like to add "unless you are Dave Mustaine and have earned that right", but even Dave Mustaine sounds like an idiot when he insults other artists.

 

Earned what right. They can say what they want. If someone does not want any kind of criticism for the music, books, movies, etc then don't put it out keep it to a close small fan base and be done with it.

 

Slayer put out there music to the masses making it open to criticism. Floor has a criticism of it because ever one can be a critic. Slayer can be critics, Dave Mustaine can be a critic, Paul Simon can be a critic, you can be a critic. Ever time you write a review on amazon you are being a critic be if for music or a computer you just bought.

 

If I buy a car and it runs bad I have ever right to call out the car company and tell me what I think of the car and the company. Why because that's how it works. If tomorrow Floor came out and said I hate the Ford motor company and they make bad cars. She can say that and you know there are a lot of people that would agree with her. If she came out and said Nikon makes the best cameras ever guess what she can say that and has ever right to. Ever one is a critic and is allowed to have criticism. If she wants to say Slayer is dull for her she has ever right to say that.

 

You do not need a degree or have earned something to give criticism to something. That is not how it works that will never be how it works. If you went to a restaurant and had a bad time and the food was no good and so on do not tell me you would not say something. Do not tell me you have not earned some right. You have the right based on the fact that you went into said restaurant.  

 

If you never went into the restaurant I can total understand your point. If Floor had never heard anything by Slayer ever like not one song or one album then you would have a great point. As it stand she has hear Slayers music meaning she has ever right to say she finds them dull. Let me give you a great example I have never hear one song or played on album by the band Haggard. For me to come out and say I like them or dislike them would be wrong. If I were to say they are dull with out hearing any of there music ever point you have made would hold true. I'm being a critic to something I have never heard I'm not being far to Haggard at that point.

 

The same would hold true for Floor example a band from my home state called Eva Under Fire. Unless Floor heard something by that band for her to have any opinion one way or the other is wrong. Because she would have no idea who they are. So she could not say they are a great band. She has never heard the music. She can't say they are a dull band she has never heard the music. Now if she went and listened to the band and did not like it and said she finds it dull. Then she would have ever right to say that.


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#182
some_dude_on_the_interwebs

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Not true.
The duties of a professional rock musician include a myriad other things, which very much include posing for promo photos and... releasing interviews.

 
Nope they don't have to do any of that.


You're entitled to see it that way.
Just remind me not to hire you as my manager, ok? :)

 

Earned what right.


Precisely: no right.

As I mentioned, even a legend like Mustaine (or Ozzy) sounds like a complete idiot when he speaks ill of other acts.
 

You do not need a degree or have earned something to give criticism to something.


Generally speaking, a degree helps in giving valid criticism, but this is not the point.

The point is that it's a bad idea to say that "band X sucks" irrespective of who you are and of who they are, because it's always you that ends up sounding like a fool :)

But hey, you're entitled to disagree.

You have every right to admire somebody for saying that "X sucks".
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#183
Baki

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You do not need a degree or have earned something to give criticism to something. That is not how it works that will never be how it works. If you went to a restaurant and had a bad time and the food was no good and so on do not tell me you would not say something. Do not tell me you have not earned some right. You have the right based on the fact that you went into said restaurant.  

 

 

 

You do understand that there is a huge difference if I stated my disapproval with your post by writing "Sorry, but I disagree, I see it another way" AND by writing "wow, you're such a stupid douchebag, you just spilled a pile of BS on your keyboard". Having tight to state your opinion does not mean that any way of stating that opinion falls under categories of decency and class. 


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#184
gabby

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Wow, you are really missing the point. No one here is taking Floor's human rights away from her. She has every right to say whatever she wants like all of us but that doesn't mean the words don't have (potential) consequences. And since her words are inevitably linked to Nightwish, I argue that what she said was extremely dumb thing to do. If she was an accountant that would've been perfectly fine thing to say. But as a singer of Nightwish, no.

 

Btw, why are we still talking about this?! :)


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#185
Razorclaw

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Wow, you are really missing the point. No one here is taking Floor's human rights away from her. She has every right to say whatever she wants like all of us but that doesn't mean the words don't have (potential) consequences. And since her words are inevitably linked to Nightwish, I argue that what she said was extremely dumb thing to do. If she was an accountant that would've been perfectly fine thing to say. But as a singer of Nightwish, no.

 

I'm getting really sick of this. I don't care if she is the singer of some no name band or the signer of Nightwish. I'm getting so sick of this. People can't say anything about music they don't like movies they don't like etc with out being called a hater or a an elitist any more. 

 

What happened to the good old days when Simon Cowell would say right to someones: "You area a horrible singer." Can we please get back to that? Or are we as the human race that thin skinned? Trust Slayer does not care what she has to say about them. If they got that hurt by what she said then they are are in the wrong business. There are people that have said far worse things about Slayer. Take a good part of the Black metal scene. What people like Euronymous, and Varg Vikernes have said a lot worse.

 

Again if Slayer can't handle it then they need to get out of the Entertainment business altogether.


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#186
some_dude_on_the_interwebs

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I... just... never thought I would see "Simon Cowell" and "good old days" in the same sentence.

Also I don't think anybody is saying the feelings of Kerry King are going to be hurt by this - just that it is a... less than classy move.

But as I said, you are entitled to your opinion about it, if you find it oh-very-sportsmanlike, that's okay :)
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#187
Serious Sam

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Not true.
The duties of a professional rock musician include a myriad other things, which very much include posing for promo photos and... releasing interviews.

 

Nope they don't have to do any of that. They don't have to have promo photos they don't have to do interviews heck they don't even have to give there music to the press. Who ever told you they had to do that was feeding you a lie.

 

Where are the promo photos for Beethoven. Where are the interviews. Do you know how many black metal bands don't do any of that. Let's look at the bands Ghost people say they know who is under the hoods of the Nameless Ghouls. For all we know it could be five women and male singer.

 

 

In the general case you are correct. But in the case of Nightwish it would surprise me if you are correct. Do you really believe Nuclear Blast would let a band like Nightwish sign a contract which includes NO promotional obligations? Run the risk that a singer like Floor could say: "No, on this tour I don't feel like giving interviews, thank you very much." I don't know this for a fact, but it would almost shock me if that were the case.

 

I don't think the Beethoven comparison makes sense, for two reasons:

 

1. Beethoven was a musical genius, possibly in the top 100 or maybe even in the top 10 of greatest musical minds of all time. No living, popular artist can be reasonably compared to Beethoven (at least not in the metal or pop genre). Neither in creative genius nor in production. And he STILL had to do a lot of contract-work for famous people, despite the fact that if he lived in this day and age he would have to have the promotional abilities of a vegetable not to get noticed. He is like the Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan when they had their two 3-peats. If you are this far above everyone else you almost can't help but getting noticed.

 

2. Beethoven depended on a few famous people to recognize his abilities and pay him to make music for them for certain functions, functions that differ considerably from the perceived function of their music bands like Nightwish have. Many classical pieces where written for specific types of events, like dances or concerts. Modern artists depend on a large fanbase to like their music. As in, like their music for itself. Bands like Nightwish say their music exists because they love this type of music and want to share it with the world. Which is awesome, but which makes the quality of your music non-objective. The quality of Beethoven's music has an objective dimension to it in the sense that you can absolutely evaluate how well suited to a court dance a certain piece of music is (for example). 

 

Lastly, please name 5 bands in either metal or pop which are Nightwish-level famous without doing promotion. Name me even ten bands which can live solely of their music without doing promotion. They don't have to do it the same way professional programmers don't have to have social skills. You can maybe find me examples where that is true (*cough*Linus Torvalds*cough* :P j/k), but by and large it is not true. 

 

You can't help but be successful and not do promotion these days. Even if you don't do promotion, the media will do it for you. They will hunt you down and soak up what they can find out about you as surely as Charles Barkley will find the closest donut store :P

 

That is all just my oppinion of course.


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#188
18thAngel

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This is only sort of relevant, but looks like TeamRock is essentially bankrupt and all their magazines will soon be discontinued, including Metal Hammer.

 

I'm going to guess they were really, really hurting for page views and subscriptions, and thus made the decision to go with the most provocative headlines possible, then put the full article behind a paywall. Looks like that didn't work out for them.


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#189
Himiko

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^ Yeah, apparently all or most of their employees were told just before Xmas that they were getting laid off and sent home without pay from what I heard. A few of the bands that they covered over the years donated some money to a fund for the staff that got laid off, which was nice to see, but yeah, bad times.


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#190
18thAngel

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Man that is truly awful for the employees. All the best to them!
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